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Talk:Superman (Post-Flashpoint)/@comment-26132686-20150721164259/@comment-26132686-20150721220036
I will NOT talk about it in the OBD. I don´t CARE about the OBD or their reasoning. This page is independent from the OBD and no matter which conclusion they reach over there is not important as long as the members of this wiki reach different results. The OBD for example also doubts that higher dimensional characters are stronger than lower dimensional, but that isn´t a reason to change it on this wiki and nobody here has any obligation to discuss that with people from the OBD. You are free to ask them for a proper explanation of their reasoning and bring it up here, but I will not do so. But our discussion actually makes progress. Kumagawas ability or reality warping are what I classify as hax. As they don´t have a proper physical explanation I don´t think any form of calculation applys to them. As such for this abilitys one can only go after the direct feats. In this point we disagree fundamentally, which means that it is for now pointless to discuss this further, we will come back to it as soon as everything else is discussed. So now we can't use FTL calcs because nothing with mass can travel faster than light or any supersonic+ feat that does not have a sonic boom occur? Good to know about this. This deduction is not quite right. The rule basically is that the author is allowed to ignore proper physics, but we arent. So that no sonic boom occurs even through a character moves super sonic is because the author ignores this physical effect. But you can not take an impossible physical effect, like for example a time stop and make a calculation based on that. So using the time stop example, since time dilation becomes infinite when approaching the speed of light you can not conclude that that character has actually accelerated the world around him to the speed of light and can because of that produce infinite energy. That would just be an error in physics. Now we get to the steps I would like to discuss next: The feat happened near earth, right? If that much energy would be produced anywhere close to earth than there would be a lot of dead people on earth, actually the planet would probably be destroyed. So that would be a point against that much energy produced. The black hole would deteriorate eventually, but Supes merely sped up the process so to speak by collapsing it then and there. We are assuming for the moment that Superman did use Hawking radiation to collapse the black hole (to say it clearly I still do not agree with this point, but I will act like I do for the moment). So as you said Superman did speed up the process. That would be what we assume in that case. Now what I am saying is, that the energy released from the black hole wouldn´t be supermans. The source of the energy that was calculated is the black hole. This energy was never in Supermans body or under his control. What he did with his power was, again, speed up hawking radiation, so that is what you would need to calculate. Basically you would need to calculate the energy required to make it so that vacuum fluctuations happen more often at the event horizon. If that is the case than you would basically try to calculate the energy required to manipulate probability, which can not be simply changed through energy. So you won´t get a result for that. Ok there is one other option. That option would be that superman can produce negativ energy. For one thing that ability in itself would ignore common durability anyway, but we can say that on the attack potency chart negative energy = positive energy, I guess. In that case there is still a problem. Time. In order to now how much negative energy Superman can output in a reasonable amount of time we would have to now the time frame. Now from what I can see there isn´t a picture that shows him actually doing that so it is already uncertain because of that, but there is another problem about the time. It happens in a black hole. Time in a black hole is strange and complicated. For an observer outside of the black hole inside a black hole the time that passes would be represented by an imaginary number. For someone inside a black hole the time passing outside the black hole would be represented by an imaginary number. So timeframe in the usual physical meaning of the word doesn´t exist here. (Also giving Superman an ability simply because it is the only explanation from which we can calculate out a number is something I am opposed to).